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2019 New and Upcoming Releases!

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Re: 2019 New and Upcoming Releases!

Post by BATMAN »

How about another Timex? S1 automatic. Uses a miyota 9039. Mineral crystal. Crazy price $450.

https://www.timex.com/giorgio-galli-s1- ... ce1882.jpg[/IMG]ImageImage

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Re: 2019 New and Upcoming Releases!

Post by Slant »

^^^
It's actually not that crazy of a price when you compare it to those micro brands with similar movements. At least this one has some unique design features like the case and the strap. I kinda like this.
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Re: 2019 New and Upcoming Releases!

Post by MoT »

BATMAN wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:15 am How about another Timex? S1 automatic. Uses a miyota 9039. Mineral crystal. Crazy price $450.

https://www.timex.com/giorgio-galli-s1- ... ce1882.jpg[/IMG]ImageImage

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The case construction is pretty wild, especially for a Timex.

I'm gagging at them calling it the most "Timex" Timex ever, though.
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Re: 2019 New and Upcoming Releases!

Post by TheJohnP »

BATMAN wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:15 am How about another Timex? S1 automatic. Uses a miyota 9039. Mineral crystal. Crazy price $450.

https://www.timex.com/giorgio-galli-s1- ... 800GO.html
ImageImageImage

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I'm having problem with the link above, so giving is some breathing room for anyone wanting to go to the product page:

https://www.timex.com/giorgio-galli-s1- ... 800GO.html



Also, here's an accompanying article from ABlogToWatch, who claims to have given the idea for the ruby inset on the dial.

https://www.ablogtowatch.com/giorgio-ga ... -by-timex/
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Re: 2019 New and Upcoming Releases!

Post by Boourns »

I don't think I have seen this one posted in this thread. A new, classy af, C65 in black and rose gold:



https://www.christopherward.com/c65-black-gold-8
I wish that watch were 38mm?
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Re: 2019 New and Upcoming Releases!

Post by username »

Boourns wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:14 pm I don't think I have seen this one posted in this thread. A new, classy af, C65 in black and rose gold:



https://www.christopherward.com/c65-black-gold-8
Great watch for a New Orleans Saints fan.
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Re: 2019 New and Upcoming Releases!

Post by PetWatch »

BATMAN wrote:How about another Timex? S1 automatic. Uses a miyota 9039. Mineral crystal. Crazy price $450.

https://www.timex.com/giorgio-galli-s1- ... ce1882.jpg[/IMG]ImageImage

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Great to see Timex up their game. I think it's very well done, classy, provided the fit and finish is there. Prices should come down.

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Re: 2019 New and Upcoming Releases!

Post by AndroidIsAwesome »

Teaser of the new Zelos makos... Yeah I may need to buy one. Now they will use a miyota movement versus the sw200 so I'd say that's kind of a downgrade. But that means they will be thinner and cheaper as confirmed by Elshan. Also note the water resistance is less, as if that actually matters though...

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Re: 2019 New and Upcoming Releases!

Post by cortman »

AndroidIsAwesome wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:44 am Teaser of the new Zelos makos... Yeah I may need to buy one. Now they will use a miyota movement versus the sw200 so I'd say that's kind of a downgrade. But that means they will be thinner and cheaper as confirmed by Elshan. Also note the water resistance is less, as if that actually matters though...

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OK yeah I'm probably going to be needing one of those. Wow.
And if they're using a Miyota 9 series that's no downgrade at all. The 9 series is known to easily achieve COSC certification standards (regulated in all positions).
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Re: 2019 New and Upcoming Releases!

Post by username »

cortman wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:51 amAnd if they're using a Miyota 9 series that's no downgrade at all. The 9 series is known to easily achieve COSC certification standards (regulated in all positions).
Since it appears they were using base grade SW200s before (at least, they never mentioned otherwise, nor have I seen the movements they used photographed, so it seems a fair assumption), I'll agree it's on average an upgrade in this case, though I suspect the worst runners of this batch will be worse than the worst of the SW200 batch, while the majority will be better than most of the SW200s. But the overall picture of where the Miyota 9xxx fits vs. the 28xx and clones is a lot more complex when you go beyond the base and elabore grades of 28xx, and COSC entails far more than merely regulating for a decent average variance (which is generally the only part of the spec in scope when people say "xyz runs within COSC").

Although I rate the 9xxx highly and think it's the best movement for most affordable mechanical watches not needing to be "Swiss," I've yet to see one perform on the timegrapher like a top or chronograph grade ETA, and from looking at the adjustment (as opposed to regulation) specs, I doubt I ever will.

Edit to add: at least one micro (Maen) have now kickstarted a sub-$1k watch with a top-grade 289x movement. Color me suitably impressed. That's where it's at when it comes to accuracy in an affordable watch! 8-)

Edit to add 2: Well, not 289x, but Chris Ward have by now sold any number of chronometer grade 28xx/SW200 watches at great prices. And there there are gray market Midos, etc. I guess the point is that unless a watch is specifically marketed for accuracy, we're likely quibbling a bit, but if it's not, I do agree the Miyota 9xxx is a great movement: accurate enough, and quite affordable. Everything else I write above is just because I'm an accuracy geek. :lol:
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Re: 2019 New and Upcoming Releases!

Post by cortman »

username wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:56 pm
cortman wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:51 amAnd if they're using a Miyota 9 series that's no downgrade at all. The 9 series is known to easily achieve COSC certification standards (regulated in all positions).
Since it appears they were using base grade SW200s before (at least, they never mentioned otherwise, nor have I seen the movements they used photographed, so it seems a fair assumption), I'll agree it's on average an upgrade in this case, though I suspect the worst runners of this batch will be worse than the worst of the SW200 batch, while the majority will be better than most of the SW200s. But the overall picture of where the Miyota 9xxx fits vs. the 28xx and clones is a lot more complex when you go beyond the base and elabore grades of 28xx, and COSC entails far more than merely regulating for a decent average variance (which is generally the only part of the spec in scope when people say "xyz runs within COSC").

Although I rate the 9xxx highly and think it's the best movement for most affordable mechanical watches not needing to be "Swiss," I've yet to see one perform on the timegrapher like a top or chronograph grade ETA, and from looking at the adjustment (as opposed to regulation) specs, I doubt I ever will.

Edit to add: at least one micro (Maen) have now kickstarted a sub-$1k watch with a top-grade 289x movement. Color me suitably impressed. That's where it's at when it comes to accuracy in an affordable watch! 8-)

Edit to add 2: Well, not 289x, but Chris Ward have by now sold any number of chronometer grade 28xx/SW200 watches at great prices. And there there are gray market Midos, etc. I guess the point is that unless a watch is specifically marketed for accuracy, we're likely quibbling a bit, but if it's not, I do agree the Miyota 9xxx is a great movement: accurate enough, and quite affordable. Everything else I write above is just because I'm an accuracy geek. :lol:
Love getting that input! I'm still pretty ignorant about grades of ETA movement.
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Re: 2019 New and Upcoming Releases!

Post by username »

cortman wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:24 amLove getting that input! I'm still pretty ignorant about grades of ETA movement.
Thank you for replying. I was a little afraid I was going a bit much into lecture mode. :D And it's important not to lecture, because I am certainly not an expert, just a guy with a timegrapher who likes accurate movements and maybe spends too much time reading about them. :lol:

Basically I see a ladder in commodity movements, with the steps mostly arranged by the degree of adjustment and the allowable variance of the given movements (and the higher rungs being so placed largely because of engineering decisions). ETA 28xx are kind of funny since they occupy several non-consecutive rungs of that ladder. It's also true that some examples from any particular "rung" might outperform watches from a higher rung, but I think of them as rungs as a general rule. (For instance, I have one NH36A that the timegrapher tells me is more accurate than several Miyota 9-series and 2824-2 family movements I've tested. Yet every other 7s/4R/NH3xx I've tested has been a medioce performer at best, and some downright awful. So I think I got lucky with that lone example.)

Maybe it's more a floor, ceiling, and most likely result thing. For instance, I'm pretty convinced that the base grade 2824-2 has a higher floor in terms of its worst performance than the Miyota 9-series, and this is born out in in published detailed specs and also in timegrapher testing by many people. It may also be true that the base grade 2824-2 has a higher ceiling in terms of the best performing movements, but I'm far less certain of that. What I am pretty sure of is that the average 9-series is going to outperform the average base grade 2824-2 most of the time. Plus it's cheaper. Plus it's thinner. Plus its handwinding mechanism is more robust. Plus it seems - anecdotally so far - to hold up longer without service. Plus I find the gyroscopic whir of a unidirectional winder rather charming. So I'm a big fan of the 9-series. :)

Elabore grade is maybe hazier. I've only tested one so far, and it ran right in line with a pack of base grades. Looking at the specs from both ETA and Sellita, there really doesn't seem to be much between base and elabore; they are adjusted in 3 positions instead of 2, and the allowable variance is slightly smaller, but not enough to be easily noticeable without a large population of watches. The parts are basically the same, the difference is mostly in finishing and in slightly tighter specs. So again, I'd pick the 9-series nearly every time; though I think the best elabores are probably better than the best 9-series, I think they're probably still loosely speced enough not to be worth the cost and comparative fragility vs. the Miyota.

Where we really get cooking are in top and chronometer grades. There are no difference in parts between the two as I understand it, it's simply that the latter undergo a bit more testing, then are sent off to COSC for very thorough testing and certification. No one wants to pay for COSC testing of a movement likely to fail, so it's reasonable to assume these two grades are very close together in practice, likely identical. And when we get to the difference from base and elabore grades, we see marked differences: they are adjusted in five positions vs. 2 for base and 3 for elabore, the allowable deviations are tighter still, the maximum variance is tighter, and so is the allowable isochronism. The balance wheels and hairsprings are of different material than the base and elabore grades, the anti-shock mechanism on the balance is different. They truly are superior movements, and I would leap for one as an upgrade any time.

Higher up from the rather basic 282x/283x series, we deal with the 289x movements, and those are a whole 'nuther kettle of fish. The top and chronometer grade 282x/283x are probably better than the base model 289x, but the top and chronometer grade 289x are very special movements. I get giddy when I see them placed in affordable watches. :D

Re. Sellita vs. ETA, I'd suspect from others' anecdotal evidence that the ETAs might run slightly better, but at least in the 2824-clones, the Sellita has a longer power reserve, so it's kind of a toss-up, and I don't really care which one is in my watch.

The funny one of the 282x clones is STP. The 1-11 is specced in adjustment, positional variance, and max deviations in line with a top-grade ETA or Sellita, with isochronism only at the level of the elabore grades. That's still a heck of a movement if it meets those specs. But do they? I don't know. I know there were a lot of teething problems with these movements a few years ago, but I've not heard much lately. They might be the dark horse here, the true best bargain movements. The STP 3-13 is pretty much the same thing but with a swan-neck regulator for better fine adjustment. I have no idea of the cost difference of the 3-13 over the 1-11, nor as above if it meets it's specs, but it sure is an intriguing one.

So to wrap up my thoughts in this somewhat offtopic post that ended up way longer than I'd planned (and as warned above is not written by an expert :) ), here are the rungs of commodity movements - with all the above caveats, plus admission that I don't have data on a lot of these and may be completely offbase - as I see them, in reverse order:
  • Ultra-cheap Chinese of domestic design (the sort like badly adapted automatic Tongjis in $15 watches)
  • Vostok (not sure how available they are, but I know a few other brands in the past used them - they are said to be robust and long-lived, but they're usually awful runners)
  • Low-end Chinese domestic designs of mass production but with okay QC
  • Chinese Miyota 8xxx clones (though they do usually hack)
  • base grades of Chinese ETA clones and the better of their mass produced domestics (ST25, etc.)
  • Seiko 7s
  • Miyota 8xxx - the handwinding is a nice upgrade from the 7s that to me more than offsets the stuttering seconds, and some of the newer ones hack too.
  • Seiko 4R/NH3x
  • base grade 2824/SW200 families - high grades of Chinese clones and some of their domestic designs are probably about here too
  • elabore grade 2824/SW200 families - maybe the best grades of Chinese commodity movements belong here, including the best clones
  • Miyota 9xxx (may or may not be better than elabore grade above, but generally a better compromise and clearly better than base)
  • STP 1-11? (If it meets its specs?)
  • base grade 289x/SW300 families
  • elabore grade 289x/SW300 families
  • STP 3-13? (If it meets its specs?)
  • top grade 2824/SW200 families - often the best accuracy/price combination in affordable watches, but sadly underused
  • chronometer 2824/SW200 families - the best movements often seen under $1k - Chris Ward uses these a lot, as do a few others.
  • top grade 289x/SW300 families - best movements I sometimes see in sub $1k watches
  • chronometer 289x/SW300 families - sometimes seen under $1.5k. Not sure if or how many of these I've seen under $1k, but they would be a heck of a buy.
So yeah, to me, going from a base grade to Miyota 9-series I tend to see as an upgrade. Stepping up to top grade though, that's what gets me excited. :lol: Yeah, I'm a geek, and probably a poorly learned one at that, but I had fun writing this too-long post. :D
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Re: 2019 New and Upcoming Releases!

Post by AndroidIsAwesome »

username wrote:
cortman wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:24 amLove getting that input! I'm still pretty ignorant about grades of ETA movement.
Thank you for replying. I was a little afraid I was going a bit much into lecture mode. :D And it's important not to lecture, because I am certainly not an expert, just a guy with a timegrapher who likes accurate movements and maybe spends too much time reading about them. [emoji38]

Basically I see a ladder in commodity movements, with the steps mostly arranged by the degree of adjustment and the allowable variance of the given movements (and the higher rungs being so placed largely because of engineering decisions). ETA 28xx are kind of funny since they occupy several non-consecutive rungs of that ladder. It's also true that some examples from any particular "rung" might outperform watches from a higher rung, but I think of them as rungs as a general rule. (For instance, I have one NH36A that the timegrapher tells me is more accurate than several Miyota 9-series and 2824-2 family movements I've tested. Yet every other 7s/4R/NH3xx I've tested has been a medioce performer at best, and some downright awful. So I think I got lucky with that lone example.)

Maybe it's more a floor, ceiling, and most likely result thing. For instance, I'm pretty convinced that the base grade 2824-2 has a higher floor in terms of its worst performance than the Miyota 9-series, and this is born out in in published detailed specs and also in timegrapher testing by many people. It may also be true that the base grade 2824-2 has a higher ceiling in terms of the best performing movements, but I'm far less certain of that. What I am pretty sure of is that the average 9-series is going to outperform the average base grade 2824-2 most of the time. Plus it's cheaper. Plus it's thinner. Plus its handwinding mechanism is more robust. Plus it seems - anecdotally so far - to hold up longer without service. Plus I find the gyroscopic whir of a unidirectional winder rather charming. So I'm a big fan of the 9-series. :)

Elabore grade is maybe hazier. I've only tested one so far, and it ran right in line with a pack of base grades. Looking at the specs from both ETA and Sellita, there really doesn't seem to be much between base and elabore; they are adjusted in 3 positions instead of 2, and the allowable variance is slightly smaller, but not enough to be easily noticeable without a large population of watches. The parts are basically the same, the difference is mostly in finishing and in slightly tighter specs. So again, I'd pick the 9-series nearly every time; though I think the best elabores are probably better than the best 9-series, I think they're probably still loosely speced enough not to be worth the cost and comparative fragility vs. the Miyota.

Where we really get cooking are in top and chronometer grades. There are no difference in parts between the two as I understand it, it's simply that the latter undergo a bit more testing, then are sent off to COSC for very thorough testing and certification. No one wants to pay for COSC testing of a movement likely to fail, so it's reasonable to assume these two grades are very close together in practice, likely identical. And when we get to the difference from base and elabore grades, we see marked differences: they are adjusted in five positions vs. 2 for base and 3 for elabore, the allowable deviations are tighter still, the maximum variance is tighter, and so is the allowable isochronism. The balance wheels and hairsprings are of different material than the base and elabore grades, the anti-shock mechanism on the balance is different. They truly are superior movements, and I would leap for one as an upgrade any time.

Higher up from the rather basic 282x/283x series, we deal with the 289x movements, and those are a whole 'nuther kettle of fish. The top and chronometer grade 282x/283x are probably better than the base model 289x, but the top and chronometer grade 289x are very special movements. I get giddy when I see them placed in affordable watches. :D

Re. Sellita vs. ETA, I'd suspect from others' anecdotal evidence that the ETAs might run slightly better, but at least in the 2824-clones, the Sellita has a longer power reserve, so it's kind of a toss-up, and I don't really care which one is in my watch.

The funny one of the 282x clones is STP. The 1-11 is specced in adjustment, positional variance, and max deviations in line with a top-grade ETA or Sellita, with isochronism only at the level of the elabore grades. That's still a heck of a movement if it meets those specs. But do they? I don't know. I know there were a lot of teething problems with these movements a few years ago, but I've not heard much lately. They might be the dark horse here, the true best bargain movements. The STP 3-13 is pretty much the same thing but with a swan-neck regulator for better fine adjustment. I have no idea of the cost difference of the 3-13 over the 1-11, nor as above if it meets it's specs, but it sure is an intriguing one.

So to wrap up my thoughts in this somewhat offtopic post that ended up way longer than I'd planned (and as warned above is not written by an expert :) ), here are the rungs of commodity movements - with all the above caveats, plus admission that I don't have data on a lot of these and may be completely offbase - as I see them, in reverse order:
  • Ultra-cheap Chinese of domestic design (the sort like badly adapted automatic Tongjis in $15 watches)
  • Vostok (not sure how available they are, but I know a few other brands in the past used them - they are said to be robust and long-lived, but they're usually awful runners)
  • Low-end Chinese domestic designs of mass production but with okay QC
  • Chinese Miyota 8xxx clones (though they do usually hack)
  • base grades of Chinese ETA clones and the better of their mass produced domestics (ST25, etc.)
  • Seiko 7s
  • Miyota 8xxx - the handwinding is a nice upgrade from the 7s that to me more than offsets the stuttering seconds, and some of the newer ones hack too.
  • Seiko 4R/NH3x
  • base grade 2824/SW200 families - high grades of Chinese clones and some of their domestic designs are probably about here too
  • elabore grade 2824/SW200 families - maybe the best grades of Chinese commodity movements belong here, including the best clones
  • Miyota 9xxx (may or may not be better than elabore grade above, but generally a better compromise and clearly better than base)
  • STP 1-11? (If it meets its specs?)
  • base grade 289x/SW300 families
  • elabore grade 289x/SW300 families
  • STP 3-13? (If it meets its specs?)
  • top grade 2824/SW200 families - often the best accuracy/price combination in affordable watches, but sadly underused
  • chronometer 2824/SW200 families - the best movements often seen under $1k - Chris Ward uses these a lot, as do a few others.
  • top grade 289x/SW300 families - best movements I sometimes see in sub $1k watches
  • chronometer 289x/SW300 families - sometimes seen under $1.5k. Not sure if or how many of these I've seen under $1k, but they would be a heck of a buy.
So yeah, to me, going from a base grade to Miyota 9-series I tend to see as an upgrade. Stepping up to top grade though, that's what gets me excited. [emoji38] Yeah, I'm a geek, and probably a poorly learned one at that, but I had fun writing this too-long post. :D
Good breakdown of the movements. I definitely wouldn't put stp movements above any eta though. In my experience stp are trash and I will never buy another watch using one again because of all the problems with the zodiac jetomatic using the 3-13.
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Re: 2019 New and Upcoming Releases!

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AndroidIsAwesome wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:33 pmI definitely wouldn't put stp movements above any eta though. In my experience stp are trash and I will never buy another watch using one again because of all the problems with the zodiac jetomatic using the 3-13.
Good to know, thanks. :) They are a bit of a mystery to me since they've been used so little so far, mostly by Zodiac and its owner (Fossil). Was it reliability issues, or timing problems, or both?
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Re: 2019 New and Upcoming Releases!

Post by TheJohnP »

username wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:27 pm
cortman wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:24 amLove getting that input! I'm still pretty ignorant about grades of ETA movement.
Thank you for replying. I was a little afraid I was going a bit much into lecture mode. :D And it's important not to lecture, because I am certainly not an expert, just a guy with a timegrapher who likes accurate movements and maybe spends too much time reading about them. :lol:

Basically I see a ladder in commodity movements, with the steps mostly arranged by the degree of adjustment and the allowable variance of the given movements (and the higher rungs being so placed largely because of engineering decisions). ETA 28xx are kind of funny since they occupy several non-consecutive rungs of that ladder. It's also true that some examples from any particular "rung" might outperform watches from a higher rung, but I think of them as rungs as a general rule. (For instance, I have one NH36A that the timegrapher tells me is more accurate than several Miyota 9-series and 2824-2 family movements I've tested. Yet every other 7s/4R/NH3xx I've tested has been a medioce performer at best, and some downright awful. So I think I got lucky with that lone example.)

Maybe it's more a floor, ceiling, and most likely result thing. For instance, I'm pretty convinced that the base grade 2824-2 has a higher floor in terms of its worst performance than the Miyota 9-series, and this is born out in in published detailed specs and also in timegrapher testing by many people. It may also be true that the base grade 2824-2 has a higher ceiling in terms of the best performing movements, but I'm far less certain of that. What I am pretty sure of is that the average 9-series is going to outperform the average base grade 2824-2 most of the time. Plus it's cheaper. Plus it's thinner. Plus its handwinding mechanism is more robust. Plus it seems - anecdotally so far - to hold up longer without service. Plus I find the gyroscopic whir of a unidirectional winder rather charming. So I'm a big fan of the 9-series. :)

Elabore grade is maybe hazier. I've only tested one so far, and it ran right in line with a pack of base grades. Looking at the specs from both ETA and Sellita, there really doesn't seem to be much between base and elabore; they are adjusted in 3 positions instead of 2, and the allowable variance is slightly smaller, but not enough to be easily noticeable without a large population of watches. The parts are basically the same, the difference is mostly in finishing and in slightly tighter specs. So again, I'd pick the 9-series nearly every time; though I think the best elabores are probably better than the best 9-series, I think they're probably still loosely speced enough not to be worth the cost and comparative fragility vs. the Miyota.

Where we really get cooking are in top and chronometer grades. There are no difference in parts between the two as I understand it, it's simply that the latter undergo a bit more testing, then are sent off to COSC for very thorough testing and certification. No one wants to pay for COSC testing of a movement likely to fail, so it's reasonable to assume these two grades are very close together in practice, likely identical. And when we get to the difference from base and elabore grades, we see marked differences: they are adjusted in five positions vs. 2 for base and 3 for elabore, the allowable deviations are tighter still, the maximum variance is tighter, and so is the allowable isochronism. The balance wheels and hairsprings are of different material than the base and elabore grades, the anti-shock mechanism on the balance is different. They truly are superior movements, and I would leap for one as an upgrade any time.

Higher up from the rather basic 282x/283x series, we deal with the 289x movements, and those are a whole 'nuther kettle of fish. The top and chronometer grade 282x/283x are probably better than the base model 289x, but the top and chronometer grade 289x are very special movements. I get giddy when I see them placed in affordable watches. :D

Re. Sellita vs. ETA, I'd suspect from others' anecdotal evidence that the ETAs might run slightly better, but at least in the 2824-clones, the Sellita has a longer power reserve, so it's kind of a toss-up, and I don't really care which one is in my watch.

The funny one of the 282x clones is STP. The 1-11 is specced in adjustment, positional variance, and max deviations in line with a top-grade ETA or Sellita, with isochronism only at the level of the elabore grades. That's still a heck of a movement if it meets those specs. But do they? I don't know. I know there were a lot of teething problems with these movements a few years ago, but I've not heard much lately. They might be the dark horse here, the true best bargain movements. The STP 3-13 is pretty much the same thing but with a swan-neck regulator for better fine adjustment. I have no idea of the cost difference of the 3-13 over the 1-11, nor as above if it meets it's specs, but it sure is an intriguing one.

So to wrap up my thoughts in this somewhat offtopic post that ended up way longer than I'd planned (and as warned above is not written by an expert :) ), here are the rungs of commodity movements - with all the above caveats, plus admission that I don't have data on a lot of these and may be completely offbase - as I see them, in reverse order:
  • Ultra-cheap Chinese of domestic design (the sort like badly adapted automatic Tongjis in $15 watches)
  • Vostok (not sure how available they are, but I know a few other brands in the past used them - they are said to be robust and long-lived, but they're usually awful runners)
  • Low-end Chinese domestic designs of mass production but with okay QC
  • Chinese Miyota 8xxx clones (though they do usually hack)
  • base grades of Chinese ETA clones and the better of their mass produced domestics (ST25, etc.)
  • Seiko 7s
  • Miyota 8xxx - the handwinding is a nice upgrade from the 7s that to me more than offsets the stuttering seconds, and some of the newer ones hack too.
  • Seiko 4R/NH3x
  • base grade 2824/SW200 families - high grades of Chinese clones and some of their domestic designs are probably about here too
  • elabore grade 2824/SW200 families - maybe the best grades of Chinese commodity movements belong here, including the best clones
  • Miyota 9xxx (may or may not be better than elabore grade above, but generally a better compromise and clearly better than base)
  • STP 1-11? (If it meets its specs?)
  • base grade 289x/SW300 families
  • elabore grade 289x/SW300 families
  • STP 3-13? (If it meets its specs?)
  • top grade 2824/SW200 families - often the best accuracy/price combination in affordable watches, but sadly underused
  • chronometer 2824/SW200 families - the best movements often seen under $1k - Chris Ward uses these a lot, as do a few others.
  • top grade 289x/SW300 families - best movements I sometimes see in sub $1k watches
  • chronometer 289x/SW300 families - sometimes seen under $1.5k. Not sure if or how many of these I've seen under $1k, but they would be a heck of a buy.
So yeah, to me, going from a base grade to Miyota 9-series I tend to see as an upgrade. Stepping up to top grade though, that's what gets me excited. :lol: Yeah, I'm a geek, and probably a poorly learned one at that, but I had fun writing this too-long post. :D
WOW.
Great info!
I think this needs to be a thread on its' own.
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