Cortman's Watch Servicing Adventure

[cortman]

I am currently undertaking a new project in my watch hobby; attempting a full service of a mechanical watch movement.
Some background:

I recently acquired a Ball Trainmaster Railroad Approved watch. The case was pretty grimy and a new crystal was required, so I opened up the case and removed the crown and stem and A. Schild 1604b manual wind movement. The case and stem went into the ultrasonic cleaner and cleaned up very nicely.
However upon reassembly the watch wouldn't wind. It just moved the hands continuously. Didn't take much to realize something was off in the keyless works, so the handset and dial came off and I found the problem after a little experimenting- the winding pinion was sitting incorrectly on the hacking lever, so that the pinion stayed unengaged with the winding gear. It was an easy fix once discovered, and the watch went back together without a hitch.
When the watch came back together I realized it had a problem; it would occasionally stop at the 24 second mark, usually restarting after a change of position or light tapping on the case.
This coupled with how much I had, surprisingly to me, enjoyed working with the movement led me to the decision to try to clean and service the movement myself. The skipping/stopping could be a bit of lint or something in the gear train; or it could be that a gear has a damaged tooth. A service would give me a chance to examine and/or remedy the problem.

I have another manual wind watch incoming for practice next; but as I didn't want to send the Ball to a watchmaker quite yet I figured I'd give it a go.

This thread will chronicle my experiences, challenges and pitfalls in this new endeavor. Learn from my mistakes, and hopefully successes!

[cortman]

First, here's the watch when I received it.

Upon opening the caseback, I see what I believe is some sort of antimagnetic cover/movement holder combo.

And the movement itself!

The A. Schild 1604 movement is a decent manual wind movement with a nice swan neck regulator. The 1604b (this movement) was fitted with a hacking lever, visible over the mainspring barrel and crown gear. It was made for a few companies, Ball and Elgin in particular, specifically for railroad approved watches. It's a nicely finished movement and doesn't look in too bad of shape.

[watchpalooza]

C3988F90-311D-4905-BB92-1D5638B8B89B.jpeg (30.74 KiB) Viewed 3606 times

[TheJohnP]

[Stretch44]

[Stretch44]

I'm excited to see your progress on this. I've always wanted to tear down a movement and service it, but am scared. Maybe you'll be my inspiration!

[cortman]

Initial teardown went well. All parts were removed carefully and placed in parts trays. I had a stack of 8 trays, so I used them generously, keeping screws with the bridges and parts they corresponded to.

Note that the balance, hairspring and balance bridge remain assembled. This was per advice I read in various places that it is best to either leave the balance assembly attached to the mainplate for cleaning, or else very carefully remove it as a complete assembly. I managed to pull off the latter successfully.

Here my first lesson was learned. The crown wheel screw seemed stuck. I steadily applied more torque, until the head of the screw popped off.
Turns out that almost all crown wheel screws are left hand threaded, and now I had a broken screw stuck in a plate.
I sat back for a little while to get my bearings and make sure I didn't do anything rash. I wanted to make sure I didn't let this become a "gumption trap", per the writings of Robert Pirsig, and after a bit did some research on removing stuck screws less than a millimeter across.
Turns out Bergeon makes a very fine, effective tool for just this- and it costs around $100.
I sighed but ponied up. Knowing my luck I'll be needing it many more times in the future.
A new crown screw was quite easy to find. It turns out they're universal across most movements, in a series of different head and thread sizes. I measured my broken one as best I could and was confident enough to order a screw with a 2.5mm head and .8mm thread. $1.50, not bad.

Having made peace with the broken screw, I turned my attention to cleaning. None of the parts were corroded but there was a good amount of grime and old oil present.
Here I learned my second lesson, when cleaning the main plate. I left it in the ultrasonic cleaner overnight, in a solution of distilled water and detergent, and in the morning was very surprised to see a bit of surface rust on some of the jewel fittings and a couple other areas.
Although some places online recommended using this solution as a first cleaning stage, I am thinking I will stay away from it.
I ran the main plate through a couple cleanings with Ronsonol naphtha lighter fluid, and with a little light brushing with a new toothbrush the rust was gone and the plate was bright and clean.

To clean the pallet fork and balance/hairsping assembly, I simply dipped them quickly in the naphtha then gently dried them with a hair dryer. The rest of the parts are getting an 8 minute clean in the ultrasonic cleaner which so far has worked admirably.

So far, so good- a few obstacles, but nothing project-ending, and some valuable lessons learned.

[Split-Time]

Initial teardown went well. All parts were removed carefully and placed in parts trays. I had a stack of 8 trays, so I used them generously, keeping screws with the bridges and parts they corresponded to.

PXL_20210410_024113611.jpg

Note that the balance, hairspring and balance bridge remain assembled. This was per advice I read in various places that it is best to either leave the balance assembly attached to the mainplate for cleaning, or else very carefully remove it as a complete assembly. I managed to pull off the latter successfully.

Here my first lesson was learned. The crown wheel screw seemed stuck. I steadily applied more torque, until the head of the screw popped off.
Turns out that almost all crown wheel screws are left hand threaded, and now I had a broken screw stuck in a plate.
I sat back for a little while to get my bearings and make sure I didn't do anything rash. I wanted to make sure I didn't let this become a "gumption trap", per the writings of Robert Pirsig, and after a bit did some research on removing stuck screws less than a millimeter across.
Turns out Bergeon makes a very fine, effective tool for just this- and it costs around $100.
I sighed but ponied up. Knowing my luck I'll be needing it many more times in the future.
A new crown screw was quite easy to find. It turns out they're universal across most movements, in a series of different head and thread sizes. I measured my broken one as best I could and was confident enough to order a screw with a 2.5mm head and .8mm thread. $1.50, not bad.

Having made peace with the broken screw, I turned my attention to cleaning. None of the parts were corroded but there was a good amount of grime and old oil present.
Here I learned my second lesson, when cleaning the main plate. I left it in the ultrasonic cleaner overnight, in a solution of distilled water and detergent, and in the morning was very surprised to see a bit of surface rust on some of the jewel fittings and a couple other areas.
Although some places online recommended using this solution as a first cleaning stage, I am thinking I will stay away from it.
I ran the main plate through a couple cleanings with Ronsonol naphtha lighter fluid, and with a little light brushing with a new toothbrush the rust was gone and the plate was bright and clean.


PXL_20210410_025615986.jpg

To clean the pallet fork and balance/hairsping assembly, I simply dipped them quickly in the naphtha then gently dried them with a hair dryer. The rest of the parts are getting an 8 minute clean in the ultrasonic cleaner which so far has worked admirably.

So far, so good- a few obstacles, but nothing project-ending, and some valuable lessons learned.

Bravo, man! I didn't expect an update so soon, but the appears to be going great .

[PetWatch]

To clean the pallet fork and balance/hairsping assembly, I simply dipped them quickly in the naphtha then gently dried them with a hair dryer. The rest of the parts are getting an 8 minute clean in the ultrasonic cleaner which so far has worked admirably.

So far, so good- a few obstacles, but nothing project-ending, and some valuable lessons learned.

Thanks for sharing Cortman, some day I'll give it a try.

In regards to the ultrasonic cleaning, I did quite a bit of research not specific to cleaning parts of a movement some time back , but based on that info an 8 minute cleaning seems very excessive. I have completely cleaned bracelets in less than a minute, 30-45 seconds will clean most parts using water heated to 170F with a small amount soap or just water. Soak a few minutes first and don't let parts touch bottom of UC cleaner The heat appears to be very helpful. As you probably know excessive ultrasonic cleaning can cause damage, though I don't think this would occur or be of significance in one cleaning session. Anyway, thought I let you know.

[cortman]

To clean the pallet fork and balance/hairsping assembly, I simply dipped them quickly in the naphtha then gently dried them with a hair dryer. The rest of the parts are getting an 8 minute clean in the ultrasonic cleaner which so far has worked admirably.

So far, so good- a few obstacles, but nothing project-ending, and some valuable lessons learned.

Thanks for sharing Cortman, some day I'll give it a try.

In regards to the ultrasonic cleaning, I did quite a bit of research not specific to cleaning parts of a movement some time back , but based on that info an 8 minute cleaning seems very excessive. I have completely cleaned bracelets in less than a minute, 30-45 seconds will clean most parts using water heated to 170F with a small amount soap or just water. Soak a few minutes first and don't let parts touch bottom of UC cleaner The heat appears to be very helpful. As you probably know excessive ultrasonic cleaning can cause damage, though I don't think this would occur or be of significance in one cleaning session. Anyway, thought I let you know.

That may be an excessive amount of time. It's the maximum timed setting on my cleaner, so I just went with it. I haven't really found anything talking about damage ultrasonic cleaning would cause to individual watch parts, though?
Thanks for the info.

[PetWatch]

To clean the pallet fork and balance/hairsping assembly, I simply dipped them quickly in the naphtha then gently dried them with a hair dryer. The rest of the parts are getting an 8 minute clean in the ultrasonic cleaner which so far has worked admirably.

So far, so good- a few obstacles, but nothing project-ending, and some valuable lessons learned.

Thanks for sharing Cortman, some day I'll give it a try.

In regards to the ultrasonic cleaning, I did quite a bit of research not specific to cleaning parts of a movement some time back , but based on that info an 8 minute cleaning seems very excessive. I have completely cleaned bracelets in less than a minute, 30-45 seconds will clean most parts using water heated to 170F with a small amount soap or just water. Soak a few minutes first and don't let parts touch bottom of UC cleaner The heat appears to be very helpful. As you probably know excessive ultrasonic cleaning can cause damage, though I don't think this would occur or be of significance in one cleaning session. Anyway, thought I let you know.

That may be an excessive amount of time. It's the maximum timed setting on my cleaner, so I just went with it. I haven't really found anything talking about damage ultrasonic cleaning would cause to individual watch parts, though?
Thanks for the info.

Ultrasonic cleaning works through a process called cavitation, basically the creation of small bubbles at very high temps that implode, this will damage metals and other materials by causing pitting with prolonged exposure.

Lot's of info on the web, which can be confusing.

Looking forward to the rest of the project and your conclusion assessment.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[cortman]

As of today, all the parts are cleaned. I examined the wheels as closely as I could with my 40x loupe looking for damaged teeth. And I found them. This one might explain some of the hour hand stutter when setting the watch, but I would be surprised if they would cause it to stop completely.

As you can see the shape of the tooth is changed slightly. This doesn't seem like a long term reusable part.
But since the wheels are not hard to remove after the fact, I think I'll reuse this one when I reassemble the watch and if I still see a problem, look into getting a new one.
The other wheels look fine. One has a shiny tooth but the shape of the tooth seems fine.
At this point I am ready to start oiling and reassembling but I am waiting on the screw extractor, which is 3-4 weeks out, so this project is currently stalled till then.